I, for one, welcome our rat-brain Overlords
Shit like this always freaks me out, but also fills me with a pale, sickly sort of hope for a better (if creepier) future.
The blob of nerves forming the brain of the robot was taken from the neural cortex in a rat foetus and then treated to dissolve the connections between individual neurons [excerpt taken from here].
Dr. Ben Whalley (notice I didn’t say “scientists,” which is my pet peeve of the moment—these people should not have to be anonymous white coats) has conducted experiments that involve making a little neural margarita out of rat brain cells and sticking them on top of a little robot with wheels. In the “don’t tell them how to actually make nitroglycerin” maneuver, the article doesn’t say how the following was accomplished, but somehow
The brain cells have been taught how to control the robot’s movements so it can steer round obstacles and the next step, say its creators, is to get it to recognise its surroundings.
Then they plan to change the surroundings to simulate memory loss to see how the brain … mush … changes. Anything that cures something like Alzheimer’s is alright with me, but I can’t help feeling sorry for the rat fetuses the brain cells are taken from (and presumably the uh rat that the fetuses are taken from—doubt they called in a midwife for that).
It does raise the obvious (to me) questions about the intersection of organic and inorganic, sentience and synthetics, and the question of the “ghost in the machine,” or the soul trapped in the robot.
The “ghost in the machine” phrase is one you hear a lot for one reason or another (the 1981 Police album, the anime series and movies, probably mostly because it has two words people who speak English dig in it) but it orginates in a book by philsopher Gilbert Ryle as a jab at Descartes’s mind-body dualism (Descartes, dead for just under 300 years at that time, didn’t deign to respond).
Descartes pondered the question of where the body and the mind (or, really, the soul) intersect (he settled on the pituitary gland, as it’s the only “single” he could find in the head—two eyes, two ears, two jaws, everything else lobed and symmetrical). Descartes’s idea that the physical and the “aphysical” are separate and distinct has lasted a hell of a long time. Some people disagree.
Ryle basically had a problem with dualism (the whole concept that mind/soul and body are separate but somehow coexisting and intersecting) and evidently felt that Descartes and everyone who believes in dualism (which, though I doubt they realize it, is about everyone who isn’t a philosopher who studies this shit) fails to use the concepts correctly. For what it’s worth, I think using a concept in any manner that approaches a greater inherent understanding, whether that understanding can efficiently—or at all—be communicated to other people is a perfectly acceptable use of the human mind. I offer a gentle-but-firm “Fuck you, Ryle” to my fellow Leo (19 Aug), but expect no response as he is now as dead as Descartes.
Descartes was one of the first guys to walk down a path (on which, to be fair, Plato and Aristotle may have swung machetes) that has been more recently trafficked by people interested in artificial intelligence, all of whom (to my knowledge) have been dualists. The “philsophy of the mind” is sort of a hobby of mine, and it quickly gets messy with issues of dualism, “substance dualism” versus “property dualism” (”it’s stuff” vs. “it’s created by stuff but isn’t stuff itself”, sort of), monism (I’m not even going to get into it), and various other really fucking confusing issues and questions.
The closer we get to artificial intelligence—and every time I read a story like the one linked to above—the more I wonder about the nature of the soul, whether it exists and if so is created or creates itself, and ultimately if the soul is the purview of man (and/or animal), or if souls can exist outside of organic beings that may or may not be sentient. I’ll leave my (predictably messy) beliefs out of it, but I’ve got a pretty firm grasp on some suppositions. Shit like rat-brained robots scuttling around pens (read the article!) don’t make these questions any easier to answer, however.
When we get to a point (and we will) where we can essentially up- and download sentience in one form or another into manufactured forms, the question may answer itself, or become impossible to ask. I dunno. My mind and body both want a drink, at this point.
Next time I see you remind me to tell you about a radio show I think you should listen to… it’s called Radiolab. Some of the stuff you talk about here reminded me of a couple of different shows they’ve done. You’d like it — it’s available on itunes as a podcast.
You can grab podcasts with a lot of different tools (including my phone, which freaks me out a little, like rat brain robots). I’ll check it out, thanks for the recommendation.
edit: I decided to start at the beginning with Radiolab, and their very first show ever is basically about the same issues I wrote about in this post. Eerie. Good call, L.
(Jaredh here, but I prefer my more real nick here.)
I just read that same article, via Boingboing, and yes, it creeped me out, too. Especially the video was pretty scary.
Now, I do feel for the poor rats, but if this cures Alzheimer I feel it’s worth it. Still creepy. Not that I find myself thinking if I chose the wrong career and if I could still change it…
I read an article about people trying to simulate a rat’s neocortex in a computer a while ago. I’ve lost the reference, but it got me thinking if we could use those simulations for some stuff - my first application idea was to use it to do signal separation from an audio signal, but I have no idea if that could be done. I should write an outline and try to use it as a basis for a PhD (if somebody wants to, go ahead - it’s not like it couldn’t be used for multiple ones, and I’m probably not doing one right now).
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In other news, nice to see you writing again. I could also try to talk to you in-game, too, if you still play.
I know who Pare is ;-). The only person I know who began training as a neuroscientist stopped about a third of the way through to become a photographer (specifically the kind of photographer who tours Europe with punk bands), though that shifted under his feet, too (he’s now a photo editor of some kind with TMZ, which he hates vehemently).
I wonder if Dr. Whalley’s been contacted by “the military” yet. I see this sort of thing being useful for a variety of applications, if they can tune it (and they apparently can). Feed these brain cells sonar and they can echolocate around a pen. Feed them infrared or microwave and maybe they can locate hidden enemy combatant units or mark (or detonate) mines. All kinds of ethical questions abound. If I was writing more science fiction, I’d think about a story (though Philip K. Dick has already written a couple along those lines). As it is, I woke up this morning with the idea for a science fiction(ish) story about remote viewers being attached to marine reconnaissance units in some upcoming war in the Balkans. I may actually write it, though all I have is the idea (no major plot at all yet).
I’m play all the time, since it’s effectively free now (despite the viking bastards upping prices to cover their air fare bills). I probably shouldn’t put this much “sensitive” information in a public forum, but we’ve got … seven? (I’ve lost count!) POSes and a couple of freighters (one of them a nomad). I spend most of my Mondays hauling fuel and T2 raw material back and forth. I still think the developers are amoral dickheads, but since the game can be played at a “chess by mail” pace a lot of the time (and since it’s free), I keep my hand in. Good to hear from you!